By John Harrington

The name Brian Mullins will always be synonymous with a defining era for Gaelic Football in Dublin.

The midfield colossus was one of the greatest players to ever don the sky-blue jersey and was a totemic figure in the Kevin Heffernan managed Dublin teams of the 1970s and 1980s.

Over the course of his career he won four All-Ireland titles, nine Leinster titles, two National Leagues and two All-Star awards, and became a hero of Hill 16 for his inspirational displays in the middle of the field.

In Part 2 of his interview talks about...

• Dublin's All-Ireland wins in '76 and '77.

• Their famous rivalry with Kerry in the seventies.

• The car-crash that put him out of football for two years.

• Dublin's '83 All-Ireland win and his sending off in the Final.

• Life after football.

Part 1 of his interview can be read here.

John Harrington: You beat Cork in the ’74 Semi-Final and Galway in the Final so at the age of 19 in your very first year of senior inter-county football you win an All-Ireland medal. The year previously you were selling programmes before the Final. That's some turnaround, isn't it?

** **

Brian Mullins: It was a significant turnaround, but that's the way life goes. I was lucky that I had some involvement in that turn-around. But I was lucky that there were others who caused the turnaround to happen as well. I didn't dwell on it. It was a very interesting and exciting time. I was at College in Limerick so there was a lot of similar individuals in the College who were trying to do the best they could for their individual counties. One of the coincidences was that John Tobin who was in my class in Limerick was on the Galway team. There were all kinds of consequences and involvements.

JH: So what was it like after the high of '74 when that young Kerry team emerged from the blue to beat Dublin in the '75 All-Ireland Final?

BM: I suppose it was mirror-image to some extent of what happened to Cork with us in '74. Kerry did something to us in '75 like we had done to Cork the previous year. There was huge learning in that. That was a seminal occasion in the sense of bringing us very much back down to earth. That you could be at the height of success and then in the blink of an eye...a year isn't the blink of an eye, but the day is, and you're brought back down to ground.

We went into the Final in '75 exactly the opposite to what we went into in the ’74 Semi-Final against Cork. We were favourites and we got turned over. It's simple and straightforward, really. It's nothing complicated or unprecedented. It happens all the time in sport. You still see it happening. If you could get all athletes to understand that it's what you deliver on the day that matters, not what you delivered the last day.

JH: What was Kevin Heffernan like in the aftermath of that defeat in terms of rebuilding for '76? I'd imagine he was more driven than ever?

BM: He was, yeah. I suppose it's a testament to his determination that after winning an All-Ireland in '74 and losing one in '75, one could be forgiven for believing he could have said, "Ah, I've enough of this." But he didn't. He wasn't much different after '75 other than made it very clear very quickly that he wasn't going anywhere and that he felt there was still more in the group. He put it back to us to prove him right or wrong.

We realised that we had let our guard down. We had become cosy, if you would, nonchalant might be another word you could use around the hard work that we had done in '74 to get to a Final and then win the Final. We subconsciously or otherwise as both individuals and a collective had taken our foot off the pedal in terms of how we approached things, particularly the Final in '75. It was all learning. They say that an individual athlete or a group always needs every so often to be beaten to realise they're not doing enough. It was straightforward enough in that context.

JH: It must have been satisfying so to turn the tables on Kerry in '76.

BM: Satisfying to try. And to work towards that. Again, in one of these circumstances, a lot of coaches and managers will say that winning is a habit and if you really want to achieve at the final stage of Championship football, you need to be trying to win every match and taking every match one at a time. It was that kind of thinking and that kind of talk that we embarked upon in '76. We won the League and eventually won the Championship.

JH: Kevin Heffernan stepped down as manager after '76 and Tony Hanahoe became player-manager in '77 before Heffernan returned in '78. Was that a shock when it happened?

BM: Looking back on it, it was a surprise, yeah, but we had to accept it. He made up his mind and normally Kevin was the sort of person who when he made his mind up about something it was very hard to get him to change it. I personally didn't try to get him to change his mind and I'm not too sure did anybody. He stepped back from the situation and Tony Hanahoe, Donal Colfer, and Lorcan Redmond must have had some dialogue with the County Board and the County Board were happy that they would continue. That's what happened.

JH: A lot of credit must surely go to Tony Hanahoe? It can't have been easy being a player-manager as he successfully as he was in '77?

BM: Yeah, yeah. There was obviously a lot of pressure on him and a lot expected in terms of just carrying on. But we were a tight-knit group and he could be forgiven for believing that a lot if not all of the individuals were prepared to support him and make sure we didn't slip back from any of the targets or training intensity that we knew were necessary if we were going to aim to win the All-Ireland in '77 again.

JH : Was that partly down to the culture Heffernan had created whereby the players were empowered to talk things through in that shed in Parnell Park so the team became player driven as much as anything else?

BM: Yeah, yeah. It did. After the defeat to Kerry in '75 it had already become a player-driven entity and we continued in that vein into '77 after Kevin left. Very little if anything changed from that point of view.

JH: Presumably that '77 All-Ireland Semi-Final against Kerry was built up as being the rubber-match because they'd beaten you in '75 and you'd beaten them in '76. Did you view it that way yourselves? Did you think if you lost that match what you had achieved before as a team would be slightly undermined?

BM: I wouldn't think so, no. My memory would be that it was another year, another effort to keep going to win again. We wouldn't have been thinking that if we lost it would be a blot on our achievements. Maybe other people do, but I wouldn't have been thinking that way. I don't think you strive for success in an All-Ireland setting, hurling or football, with a motivation that if you lose this match it's going to reflect negatively on your previous performances. We would have gone into '77 knowing that they were chastened by being beaten in '76 and that they would have every intention of reversing the result in '77.

JH: It's gone down as an all-time classic. Were you aware it was something special when you were in the heat of battle?

BM: There's no surprise in it really. They had caught us in '75 and they could equally say we caught them in '76. We knew enough at the time and we had studied them greatly to understand what they would be trying to do and we certainly knew that they had trained hard and were going to match us, if that's the right word, in the fitness stakes. We knew we had to be at our best to match them.

So I suppose the fact that it's perceived as being an excellent game is as much to do with the fact that both teams at that stage had a number of years behind them in terms of preparation. The capacity of both teams to set a high level of intensity and pace and to maintain it for most if not all of the 70 minutes wasn't a surprise.

JH: What sort of rivalry existed between both sets of players by that point?

BM: There was a very keen rivalry. Very keen. There had to be, and that was no surprise. They had a tradition, a huge tradition, and they had obviously huge quality in their team. And they had the capacity to push the pace and the intensity so we had to be prepared to match that and I'm sure in their preparation they spoke about the need for them to be at the top of their game and what they had to do.

Without getting too romantic or historical about it, it was a clash of gladiators style occasion and it was a lovely, sunny day and it was in the cauldron of what Croke Park can be with 60 or 70 thousand people there. So it had all the ingredients of a titanic clash.

JH: So to come out on the right side of it must have been a sweet one?

BM: Oh yeah, very sweet. But you're always mindful, or at least I was, of how narrow the margins are between being on the right side or wrong side of the score. If you look back at the video you can see plenty of times that they would say, "If only we had got that", and we could say the same. As I say, it had all the ingredients of being a match to remember. Because the lead swapped hands, the pace never or rarely dropped, and the crowd got value for money. There was no delaying, each team was trying to get a jump on the other team each time.

Yeah, I can understand that people consider it to be something special. But, again, it was just another match and we had won nothing except a match against Kerry which is no mean achievement. I wouldn't like to dismiss it or diminish it any way, but it was a means to an end for us to get back to an All-Ireland Final which we did.

JH: And which you won. The following year, '78, there was another showdown with Kerry, this time in the All-Ireland Final. When you talk about the fine margins between victory and defeat, you started that game really well, but then everything changed after that Mikey Sheehy goal when he famously lobbed Paddy Cullen with a free. Might it have been a different game if that hadn't been allowed to happen?

BM: Oh, yeah. That's the great thing about sport. You saw yesterday Tipperary were six points to three up against Mayo and their corner-back soloed down the pitch and between himself and his colleagues they got somewhat confused and Mayo were very quick to jump on the opportunity and like that had the ball in the back of the net. Even watching Kilkenny and Waterford, Kilkenny got one chance in the drawn game and Walter Walsh just did what a Kilkenny player does.

There's always that, and that's the great thing about sport. And in '78 at seven points to two up, John Egan got half a chance and took full advantage of a bit of laxity in our back-line and before we knew it a goal went in. And then, as you say, the Mikey Sheehy incident changed the whole pattern of the game. Really, in some ways, we shouldn't have allowed it.

We still went in at half-time very close on the score-board, I think it was 2-2 to 0-7 at stage or something. It was a huge fillip for them and a burden for us, that 10-15 minute spell before half-time when they scored the two goals and changed the whole dynamic of the game. And they have to be applauded for that. That was as typical a Kerry performance as you would ever see or witness and we knew they were capable of that.

But, yet again, we struggled to prevent it. For us, I suppose, it was even more...tragic isn't the right word...but we were going for a three-in-a-row and would dearly have wanted a three-in-a-row. For whatever silly reason you get into those notions of a hat-trick. They're talking about Usain Bolt and the triple-triple and everything like that.

If you win two All-Irelands in a row it's a huge feat. If you win three it's another great feat, but there's something special about three-in-a-row. And looking back on it we probably shouldn't have made such a big deal about it because it may have subconsciously impacted on us on that day. That's what happened, and it reminded everyone of the frailties of sport.

We went into that as All-Ireland Champions, as favourites, looking for the three-in-a-row, and we came out of it with our tails between our legs. And Kerry regained the Sam and they went on to win four-in-a-row.

JH: It was the moment the balance of power shifted. A few key Dublin players were getting on in age and Kevin Moran had gone playing soccer for Manchester United, so the team was starting to break up a little after that, was it?

BM: Yeah, it was. Some of that at least was due to the age-profile. There was a group in their early-thirties that had put in a huge effort for five or six years before that. Gay O'Driscoll, Jimmy Keaveney, Tony Hanahoe, Sean Doherty, they were a strong and forceful part of the whole campaign over the years. Although we got back to the All-Ireland Final again in '79, I think we were tired in '79.

We didn't get at all to the level that we needed to take on a Kerry team that was just getting stronger and stronger. The victory for Kerry in '79 was, I won't say easier, but it was well within their reach. We were a shadow of the force that we had been, even though we got back to an All-Ireland.

The pundits and the commentators would kind of make some analogy between our sixth All-Ireland campaign in a row from '74 through to '79 and Mayo’s this year. That year we beat Down in the semi-final and there was a lot of talk that, 'God, Dublin don't look too impressive'. And they were probably right. I was reminded of it somewhat yesterday listening to a lot of the chat about Mayo. A lot of people coming out of Croke Park were saying things like, 'Aww, they were brutal and they're not going to win an All-Ireland with that kind of team.' It's anybody's guess!

JH: In 1980 you had a serious car-accident. What are your recollections of it?

BM: Ha! How long have you got?! Ah, it happened and it shouldn't have happened. When you're in the middle of a busy life, a busy schedule, you don't think that kind of thing would happen you. You think it would happen to loads of other people but yourself. I had a badly fractured leg out of it. Lucky to be alive and survive it.

So it just meant that I was out of commission for a good while. I had already arranged to go do post-graduate studies in New York even before the crash. I had everything set up to leave in September of 1980. And obviously when I crashed on the 29th of June I had to have a major review of where things were going. But thankfully I succeeded in taking up the studies in January '81. Living in New York and studying there was a major change of life and lifestyle. I was on crutches for the initial stages and football or playing any sport was way off the agenda for me completely. So it was just concentrating on studying and working to survive and pay living costs and what not.

JH: Is it true that you had five bouts of surgery?

BM: I don't know. At this stage I wouldn't remember. I had a number because I had facial injuries as well and at various stages they had to do adjustments to the bone setting in the leg, so it could have been five, I don't know at this stage. Again, I was lucky to have a great surgeon and great care and great healing genes from my parents. I more or less made a full recovery but it took two years.

JH: Were you told you would never play football again?

**BM: **We didn't really go down that avenue. The main thing at the start was to just be happy that I got out of it. And to try to stand up, get walking again, and heal, it was just one day and one week at a time. You couldn't allow your head to be going places it didn't need to or shouldn't, you know? It would have been a case of, "Well, we'll cross that bridge when it comes to it." The main thing at the start was just to get better. The prospect of from June to December of recovering sufficiently to enable me to go to New York was a short-term target so that's what I concentrated on. I just went off into a different world.

JH: I understand Eamon Coghlan helped you with your rehab in New York?

BM: Eamon was living and working there at the time, yeah. We had known each other for a number of years and, yeah, we used to meet and Eamon did help me greatly with my recovery. Not alone when I was in America, but then when I returned to Dublin in '82. I'd be forever grateful to him for the help and support he gave me.

JH: Did you also did some hill-running in Deer Park in Howth as part of your rehab?

BM: At different times, yeah. Deer Park grasslands were quite conducive to certain types of running. There were a lot of people who were doing routines there. Starting your run at the tee-box and along the fairway and around the green and doing repetitions of those and things like that. Running is a core requirement of football, hurling, most team sports. Your running needs to be at least competent if not excellent. Not only in how you run, but how long you can run for continuously and how quickly you can recover to perform again. So I used to spend some time up in Deer Park, yeah.

JH: How hard did you push yourself to make it back?

BM: I pushed myself as hard as I could! That's not an easy question to answer in terms of after a period of time in America and some consultation with the surgeon, Martin Walsh. After about 15 to 18 months he said that he was of the view that if I wanted to start pushing it I could. That the leg had recovered sufficiently and he was happy as a surgeon to suggest the bone in the leg wasn't a problem anymore and wasn't a barrier.

After that it was up to me whether I was motivated sufficiently, knowing what I did about physical fitness and the effort that it would take, whether I wanted to go that road or not. I was 27/28 and I had to decide whether I wanted to bother my ass going back to what I knew about the hard inter-county training that would be involved. Some part of the madness must have convinced me that it was worth a try, so I did, and the rest is history as they say.

JH: Would you have any regrets that the car accident robbed you of a good chunk of your prime footballing years?

*_BM: *_After these things you don't be thinking regrets, I didn't think regrets, no. It happened, you have to accept it and get on with it. Having regrets doesn't solve anything, doesn't make it not happen. And I was lucky. I had played in six All-Irelands, I had won three of them. This was just another challenge.
Who was I to have regrets in terms of what you see around or what you witness in terms of other people having daily challenges in life that they have to go through? I had good fortune that I had good healing. You inherit your capacity for healing from your parents and I was fortunate in that regard as well. So I wasn't thinking regrets and I had never really thought regrets. It was unfortunate but it happened, so just get on with it.

JH: Can you remember the first time you got back out on the football field? I presume it was with St. Vincent's? Can you remember the setting?

BM: I can. It would be difficult for me to remember the first match I played, but the first time I went out on a football field was actually in New York. It was the first time in probably 18 months that I actually went to run a distance. I tried to run a lap of a football pitch. Just one lap. And I collapsed half-way around it. So it was a rude awakening to how much of what I took for granted I had lost. I had never had just a challenge to just be able to run. Put one leg in front of the other. My first match though, it might have been in New York in March or April of '82, but I'm not entirely sure now.

JH: When you joined up with Dublin again, you had only been away for a couple of years, but a lot had changed. Kevin Heffernan was still there as manager, but there was a lot of change in terms of the playing personnel. What was it like going back in?

BM: It was interesting in that really the only same people from my previous experience who were around were Tommy Drumm, Anton O'Toole, and Mick Holden. So it was just the four of us really in what was essentially a new group that Kevin had put together that included John O'Leary, Barney Rock, Kieran Duff, Charlie Redmond and all of that age-group. Pat Canavan and Tommy Conroy and everyone. They were really individuals that I wouldn't have had much or any knowledge or experience of beforehand.

It was really back to a scene of inexperience, if you would. I'm not sure how long they had been training and working together. Probably when I got back really it was June or July of '82. And I'd say that group may have been working from the previous year and into that year so they had some sense of the group dynamic.

But for a while I had to kind of tread warily because I wasn't fully sure of where my own individual contribution was going. I was still only putting my toes in the water of getting to understand had I a competency and a fitness level that would make any impression on a senior inter-county situation.

It was an interesting period and we lost the Leinster Final that year to Offaly by 12 points so it was quickly over, it wasn't a long spell. It would have been a short-period memory for me of being back with the family in Dublin again and going back to work in Greendale teaching after being away from that for a few years. There was a lot of different things going on.

JH: By '83 were you back into the swing of things a bit more? Could you sense there was something special building with that group by then.

BM: I suppose by the time we came around to that time of the year we had a winter of opportunity, particularly me, to work on and try to add value to my own situation. So just put the head down and worked hard over the winter. So by the time the autumn of '83 came around, I suppose there was a bit of momentum. Yeah, it was a time of preparation and trying to build a dynamic again. Tommy Drumm was captain and he and Anton and Mick Holden would have been leaders in that group as well.

We all tried to just pick it up and drive it on. I can't even remember who we played in the early stages of the Championship in '83. I know we played Offaly in the Leinster Final and reversed the defeat of the previous year. So I suppose by that time we must have been going somewhere.

JH: Would you have mixed feelings about the All-Ireland Final itself? To be part of an All-Ireland winning team again must have been great, but to be sent off in the Final must have been tough to deal with personally?

BM: I suppose in ways it was. It would be a disappointment. You don't ever intend or anticipate that you're going to be sent off in an All-Ireland Final or any match for that matter. But particularly since I was trying to recover and trying to get back to operate at that level it would have been the last thing on my mind. I would not have considered it at all.

Again, you've probably heard, that on occasion across a spectrum of events be they sporting or otherwise, those events can take over people. Or take over a situation. And '83 would have to go down as a total bolt out of the blue for everybody. If you had have said that four players were going to be sent off, people would have said you were mad, but that's what happened.

I'd say I'd feel a lot worse if Dublin hadn't have won it. So if you ask me how I feel about it, I have mixed feelings about it. I don't necessarily dwell on it, but any time I'm reminded of it I'd have mixed feelings. On the one hand Dublin won, so no harm done, but on the other hand it was fairly traumatic. Let alone being sent off and having that disappointment of not being involved in the game, but also then the aftermath and the media hype and all the nonsense that went on around it.

I often say that one of the redeeming features of it was an article that Eanna Brophy had in what was the Sunday Press at the time the week after. With tongue in cheek, he wrote that judging by the media outcry you'd swear that I had brought a Kalashnikov rifle into Croke Park and shot and murdered and pillaged around the place. When I read that piece by Eanna I thought, "Jesus, the first person all week that's put a bit of sense to the thing."

Because the media and the commentary around it was just way off the wall. There were a good number of people there who I would never give any credence or credit to for their views after that.

JH: The fact that you were sent-off for a clash with Brian Talty who you were in college with and were friends with, did that make the whole situation even stranger or more difficult?

BM: That was part of the disappointment, yeah. I had all that to weigh up as well. It was a fairly tough and rough time, but sure when you see some of the things going on around the world it's little to be worrying about.

JH: You played up to '85 with Dublin, is that right?

BM: Yeah, '85. We won in '83 thankfully and in '84 we were back again against Kerry. A Kerry team that had a lot of change in personnel although they still had a few stalwarts. They beat us in '84 and again in '85. So '85 was my last All-Ireland.

JH: Was it an easy decision to make to walk away at that stage? You would have been still relatively young?

BM: I was 31. Other things came into play, a combination of different aspects of my life. Although we didn't win in '84 and '85, I had gotten back. I had worked the oracle so to speak. And I was able to say, "Well, you know, that was no main feat, getting back."

It's a little bit like the thing with the Olympics at the moment. Unfortunately, we in Ireland here measure Olympic success by this concentration on who's going to win medals and what not. Again, you witness it, commentators are very quick to ask, “have we a chance of a medal here or here?”

There was a lovely interview on the radio last week by that lady from Cork who finished the marathon. She was so effusive about it..."I'm an Olympian, I have finished the marathon in the Olympics, I represented my country. My name will now go on the club roll of honour for Leevale." And she espoused all that was good about the achievement of being at an Olympics and being good enough to qualify and to perform.

And then we have Thomas Barr and the two Pentathletes, Arthur Lanigan O'Keeffe and Natalya Coyle, who are in the first ten in the World. And it doesn't get the public acknowledgement that it should in my view. I suppose in a little way, and thinking in that direction about myself, at 31 years of age having played in nine All-Irelands and been lucky enough to win four of them, part of my thinking is that I had done that, wore the jersey, and didn't need to prove anything to anybody, least of all myself.

The second part of it was that Gerry McCaul was appointed manager at some stage. And he asked me to continue and to work with the team and that he wanted me to be in the squad and he wasn't giving me any guarantees. Part of me would have been happy to do that, but another part of me was thinking that I was heading into a period where I probably would be a sub most of the time. Probably would be on occasions expected to keep myself at the top of my fitness but only to be brought in for games depending on the needs of the day.

I weighed that up and decided that, no, not at this stage. If I had been five years younger, I would have. If I had a realistic chance of making an impression that would mean I'd be pushing for a starting 15 place. But if I wasn't going to be in the starting 15 I wasn't prepared to put in that effort.

JH: How do you reflect on it all? You won a lot of honours, but you also played with a great group of men as well. Is that what you'd derive most satisfaction from? Being with those men in that place at that time?

BM: Oh yeah. Certainly. Again, I use the word lucky. I'm forever reminded of this when I read. I read a lot of history. And I read a lot about the famine years and the struggle for freedom. My era and our era, the current era, we don't know our luck. Some people might say, "Well, we've a growing operating economy and we have expectations of a standard of living." Yes, and that's fine, but compared to what our ancestors had to put up with and had to go through, to give us what we have now, I'm forever reminded of that. And I'm so grateful for all I've got.

I have five brothers, one sister, and we were all very aware of how much our parents did for us to make sure that they got us on a road to being independent and making a living for ourselves. And fortunately for me, my mother was from West Kerry and my father from West Clare, and I spent a lot of time as a growing youngster in rural Ireland. And I learned from that experience from my country cousins and being in the country about the value of life and the value of health. My own family, my wife Helen, four children, and six grand-children, would then have reinforced the importance of those values.

Sport for me and Gaelic Games in particular were always part of what it is to be healthy and to be Irish. Man, did I get my tuppence worth out of the organisation. I'm still involved in it, but to play in Croke Park so many times and to represent the county jersey and the club is just a tremendous wave of all that's good about life and appreciation of what we have.

JH: Is there still a good bond between you and all your former Dublin team-mates who went through a lot together?

BM: Oh yeah. We meet fairly regularly. They're meeting this Friday, now. They play golf regularly. I won't be there this time, but that doesn't mean my thoughts won't be with them. You can consider a group like that part of your extended family I suppose.

JH: Was your last game of competitive football 1991 when you helped St. Vincent's win the Dublin intermediate title?

BM: No, no! I went on after that and played in Donegal.

JH: When you moved to Carndonagh?

BM: Yeah, I won an intermediate championship medal. I have the unique collection of a few Dublin senior championship medals, a Dublin intermediate championship medal, and a Donegal intermediate Championship medal. And I played with my two sons in Donegal. That was 1996 I think.

JH: How did the move to Carndonagh come about? It's a fair change of scenery to go from here to there...

BM: It just came up. I was keen to try to professionally develop. I was a senior post-holder in the school in Kilbarrack in Greendale and I started looking further afield because there were opportunities coming up to be vice-principal or principal in schools and I had done a few interviews as part of that effort, if you would, to move up the ladder of responsibility.

If you just cut your cloth and say I'm only going to apply for jobs in Dublin, it was a far more competitive and smaller field, so I went looking for jobs outside of Dublin. I interviewed in Wexford and Cork and then eventually this one in Carndonagh. All over the country I was. Then this one in a very large school in Inishowen in north Donegal came up and I got it.

**JH: What was the move like? Any bit of a culture shock? **

BM: Ah no, it was lovely. Sure I've four Grandchildren there now. My oldest son lives there so I'm up and down and have a lot of connections there. It's a lovely part of the country. I'd never been there before I went to work there and I think that was a bit of a bonus. I enjoyed that part of it. I went with no pre-conceived ideas about the whole thing. Lovely people. Typically Irish.

JH: I'd say that '96 Intermediate Championship up there was a bit of an odyssey. There's probably another interview in that!

BM: There's a few lads up there, Kevin McLoughlin and others, who'd have a good laugh about that!

JH: Around that time you would have become the Derry county senior team manager and had a bit of success with them. What sort of experience was that?

BM: Again, it was another great experience, lovely people in Derry. I did it for three years, '96, '97, '98. Enjoyed it immensely and worked with some great people. Again, very rural, very GAA. Stepped back from it after '98 when we were beaten by Galway in the All-Ireland semi-final and I haven't dabbed my toe in that water really since.

Two years later the opportunity to come back to Dublin came up in the guise of the job in UCD (Director of Sport) and since I came back to Dublin whatever time I have I give to the club here in St. Vincent's. There were occasions when I was asked to consider the Dublin manager's job, but on the few occasions I was asked I felt that I couldn't give it the time that I believed it needed. So I wasn't going to take it on if I couldn't give it everything. So I stayed away from it.

Happily, there were other individuals who took it on and did a great job with it. No less than Jim Gavin and Pat Gilroy. So the Dublin flag and the Dublin jersey and the Dublin effort is still being carried on with honour and distinction. That's great. It's win, win for me.

JH: So, to sum up, as you say, the GAA has given you a lot?

BM: Yeah, I was saying to someone last night that I started playing hurling and football in Clontarf at eight or nine years of age in street leagues and there probably hasn't been a spell of any more than a few months since then that I haven't been involved in some way with the GAA in the intervening 53 or 54 years.

JH: Very good, thanks a million for your time, Brian.

BM: No problem.